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July 09, 2008

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Tony M

Great post as usual and I agree with your point.

But I have to say that I always interpreted Lord Denning differently. I don't think it was cognitive dissonance. I thought he simply didn't care. thought he felt the mistreatment of six people was a small price to pay to maintain public respect for the police.

Your version is kinder.

Filip vd

great post,
the link to the article is missing though.
greets,
Filip

Robert McLuhan

thanks Filip, fixed now

Tony, so Denning was cynical not naive. It's a bad world...

Mark

I agree with most of what you say, but I do not agree that it is an illusion that, "science is an independent tool, a referee free from bias and prejudice." I believe that it is true that science is free from bias and prejudice. Even if it is a human creation (I don't even necessarily agree that it is a human creation, although our terms used to describe our particular vision of this process are creations - think of it like math...is math created or is it discovered...I believe it is discovered.......sorry for going off on a tangent) the problem is people bringing their congnitive dissonance into the process of science and trying to change the rules of science to fit their theories. If and when the scientific method is applied properly, it is free of all bias.

Magnetic Helix

I am an astrophysicist and I'd like to say my opion on the bias and prejudices in science.

Science is always an human endevearor. Completely objective and unbiased science exist only in people's imagination. With science we just try to be objective as possible, but it does not always succeed. We just have to live with this and do our best.

I think that science is only free of bias when we have very well tested theories where we know exactly in which context they work. For example we know that Maxwell's equations can denscribe macroscopic electromagnetic phenomena perfectly (and they actually work well with relativity too, but mathematical formalism is different). But when we are talking about new discoveries and theories, things are quite different.

I give you an example from my own field: astrophycial plasmas. The theories concerning plasmas in astrophysical settings are awfully messy, speculative and variable. The physics itself (magnetohydrodynamics or MHD) is quite well known and clear, but it's application is a very different thing.

For example lets look at the solar dynamo theory. (More information on the dynamo theory for those who are technically inclined: http://solarphysics.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrsp-2005-2/).
People usually agree that there is a dynamo phenomenon in the Sun, but there is this a huge debate how it really works and we can't run simulations with real paremeters. One of my colleques, who is an expert on solar convection, said that it is still not possible to run convection simulations using real physical parameters because of various numerical instabilities, but "we are optimistic that these simulation can show something of value".

And these are the people who run massive parrallel simulation in supercomputer clusters.

Some time ago I was in scientific conference about dynamos and turbulence. There were two elderly english professors who someone called "anti-dynamo people". They had the same kind of extremely arrogant and dismissive attitude toward dynamo theory as hard core skeptics have toward parapsychology.

We can be never sure of anything when we are working on the fronties of science - and I am just talking about mainstream science.

But it is lot more fun to be scientist when science is messy :). Absolute certanties are for mathematicians. Like they say: “Physics is to mathematics as sex is to masturbation.”

Robert McLuhan

Does this imply that at a certain stage of advancement our understanding about the physical universe is going to get more and more fuzzy? Is it something we have to learn to live with? Or will it resolve into certainties when it's better understood?

'If and when the scientific method is applied properly, it is free of all bias.' - But who decides what is a proper application of science? There are obviously differing views between parapsychologists and sceptics in this regard. Who is right, and who adjudicates?

Mark

Well, okay Robert, ya got me there. Reason should ultimately decide what is the proper application of science, but reason does not make decisions, people do. So maybe I should say that if we had some way of making sure that reason was adhered to and of ensuring that we have enough information with respect to a certain phenomenon, then science would be perfect. The fact that this is very unlikely in any situation means that we can only try to eliminate any unreasonable thought as best we can and hope for the best. The fact that we can never be certain about whether or not unreasonable thought will creep up in a scientific experiment is a problem with how us imperfect humans are - it is not necessarily a problem with the scientific method.

Robert McLuhan

I'd agree with that. Also it's possible to work towards a convincing protocol, as Hyman's involvement with the ganzfeld and remote viewing work suggests. Another example is the staring experiments, which sceptics like Wiseman have contributed to. Eventually it should be possible for both sides to agree on an approach which is robust and credible.

There's more of a problem with interpreting the results, as the disagreements over meta-analyses suggests.

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About Paranormalia

  • Parapsychologists think some paranormal claims are genuine. Sceptics say they can all be explained in terms of fraud or misperception. Paranormalia takes the view that parapsychologists are right, but recognises that the issues are hard to penetrate. It comments on recent controversies, research and books to help shed light on this fascinating and much misunderstood subject.

Paranormalia

  • is written by Robert McLuhan, a freelance journalist living in Walworth, South London. paranormalia.com robertmcluhan@ googlemail.com

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