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A European Reincarnation-type Case

Some Precognitive Dreams

Thanks to Lawrence Brennan for this post about some recent precognitive dreams.

I am not psychic. I take that word to imply believing oneself to have a controllable or even vaguely useful power of some kind. However I've experienced enough odd things to be convinced that psi is real. Recently precognitive dreams (PDs) have been to the fore. I can't add much to the sum of knowledge on the subject, but can maybe make a few useful observations.

In my case, at least, the idea that PDs are movie-style visions of exactly what is going to happen is completely untrue. Likewise the idea that they are warnings of disaster is a popular fantasy. They are, by and large, completely trivial. I can't of course assume that the limits of my experiences are a rule that must apply to everyone else. But my suspicion is that the headline grabbing cases of foreseeing assassinations are distinguishable from the trivia only by virtue of their box office value...and no divine forewarning is intended.

In a 2011 Guardian article Richard Wiseman relies heavily on the idea of a Law of Large Numbers to explain away seeming PDs . . . putting a "once-in-a-lifetime" coincidence in the context of millions of dreams. This would only be a persuasive argument if they were remotely as rare as he imagines.

I found my dreams were precognitive, sometimes, when I started recording them into a bedside dictaphone, whenever I stirred in the night. Listening back to my sleepy mutterings after a day or two, some of the dreams I was reporting matched incidents which had subsequently occurred. This happened too often to dismiss.

On one recording I described a low flying aerial view of a city which I decided was Berlin, as the attention was drawn to a specific point below, which my dream self identified as the spot where Hitler was born. I would have no conscious memory of this dream if it were not on the recording. Four or five nights later a new TV documentary about Hitler is broadcast and begins with low flying aerial footage of an Austrian town, seeming to hone in on a particular building, as the narrator points out this was where Hitler was born. You can imagine how startled I was.

Last Monday night, 6 May: I dreamt of the Queen at a Commonwealth gathering and the (genuine) plot of a movie in which a missing girl had been abducted and kept alive below ground.

In the morning I noted down the dreams, then checked the news. Stories included Amanda Berry, the kidnapped woman who escaped from her captor's basement and the Queen to miss the Commonwealth Conference for the first time.

You'll see that my report of both dreams appear to be direct hits. And I consider them so. But it's worth pointing out that your agreement - if I have it - was partly won by my summarising the tale and referring only to the matching imagery itself. If I included more detail of the dream - it was the Queen at a Commonwealth Games opening ceremony . . . not a dream about her not attending a heads of government meeting; and in the other dream I carefully chose to say "kept alive under ground" instead of "buried alive" to draw out the comparisons with Amanda Berry - then you might be drawn to the differences and denounce my observation of a link as tenuous. This in fact is what Wiseman does in his article. And this fallacy strikes me as important to correct.

It is the imagery in the dream, not its plot, which appears precognitive. Though one might use the Law of Large Numbers here to acknowledge that, by chance alone, sometimes for some people the sleeping brain's dream factory must re-assemble the images that go into it in very close to the "correct" order.

This point was evidenced on Thursday night, 9th May. I thought my recording attempts were a complete washout, as the second I tried recalling each dream it vanished. So the first 3 or 4 recordings consisted of no more than random images, without the accompanying plot details.

Exact transcript of the first recording, 2-3am, Friday morning:

There was . . . oh god I can't remember it's so . . . I'm going to say some words to try and remind myself . . . Linda Bellingham . . . cameras . . . Ian? Not 'that' Ian . . . I'll get back to you in a second . . . no hold on . . . mmm . . . will get back to you in a minute.

Lunchtime 12.30pm, I switch on the television show Loose Women (for the first time in 3 weeks):

Today's guests are Linda Bellingham and Ian Kelsey.

Deprived of its actual plot, the dream - whatever it was, for I've no idea - appears undeniably precognitive.

In Wiseman's article he composes a hypothetical dream sequence (about a fictional rock star in a car crash) and suggests there is something silly in connecting it to certain equally hypothetical "real" events, given the numerous differences between them. This is a convincing sounding yet irrational argument. He is - in the proper sense of the phrase - begging the question. That is, his conclusion - that dreaming the future is not possible - can only be reached by starting with the premise that perceiving the future is not possible!

How so?

Well consider if you had a dream in which Peter O'Toole turned up as your window cleaner. Afterwards you scratch your head as to why on earth it should be him of all people. Then you recall that in the day preceding the dream you'd caught a glimpse of Lawrence of Arabia while flicking between television channels. Aha! But following Wiseman's logic your "explanation" would be tenuous and faintly laughable because, after all, O'Toole did not play your window cleaner in Lawrence of Arabia! Such an argument for a 'no connection', where one is so self-evident, would doubtless be considered bizarre.

But if it is, it must also be bizarre to make this "tenuous connection" argument if O'Toole were seen not before the dream, but rather on the day after, perhaps being interviewed on a magazine programme which also later features an item on streak free window cleaning. You can only reasonably treat the logic of the "tenuous connection" argument applying in one case but not the other as rational if you start from the point of view that of course one cannot ever perceive the future!

Record your dreams. You'll be surprised how often one can.

Comments

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Thanks for this post. I agree these dreams tend not to be movie-style blow-by-blows. I do think, though, they have to potential to foresee disasters of a personal nature.

A series of precognitive dreams of my wife's led me to find this blog (and your book). Some time ago she woke up disturbed from a vivid dream in which she had been strangling a person from behind. She reported the dream to me, and naturally I assured her it was "just a bad dream." A day later she dreamed of seeing a TV report of a woman pouring poison into her husband's ear, and also had a dream of teeth falling out, which in her country of origin symbolizes death. All these took place within a span of a few days.

She was so troubled that she called her parents overseas and asked after the health of her grandmother, who has heart trouble. She told them about the nightmares and they scolded her for taking them so seriously. They had not yet received the news that my wife's uncle had been shot from behind in the back of the head by his mentally ill wife.

Now, if my wife had always been waking up to tell me about her nightmares and then dialing up her parents, you could argue for selection bias (you could also argue for psychiatric evaluation). But that's not remotely the case.

Thanks for this Michael, it's good to hear about these experiences, which I guess are a lot more common than one might think.

Just to remind readers that this post is not by me, but by Lawrence Brennan, who often posts comments here.

I've never had a psi dream, and I never had the discipline to write them down when I wake up - far too groggy. Dictating them into a recorder would work better for me, but probably not for my wife :)

Psi exists. That said, I think precognitive is a misnomer. It rests on beliefs in linear time as foundational and singular.

Lawrence, we have some things in common. I too made a study of my dreams by recording them just after awakening. (I followed the instructions in J.W.Dunne's classic book, An Experiment in Time.)

And like you, I came to the conclusion that many striking correlations were taking place between my dreams and my waking life, day after day. Also like you, most of these dreams were trivial -- though not always.

For a while, though, I was a fence-sitter as to the reality of this phenomenon, and of psi in general. Then one night I woke up from the following dream. It was unusually vivid, and I immediately recorded it in detail:

I see a man, suspended just beneath helicopter blades, rising up from the ground while traveling from left to right. (That's strange and specific.)

He and the helicopter are navigating down a corridor between telephone poles. (Also unusual.)

To cap it off, someone in my dream comments on the high degree of skill it takes to navigate a helicopter in the narrow space between the power lines.

The next day, I was watching the news when a report came on in which all of the above happened. It was a story about teams of men whose job it is to do maintenance on certain huge power lines by flying up to them while one of them sits below the cabin, on the helicopter's runners.

That was the dream that ended my fence-sitting.

I regularly have experiences where I will wake up from an involuntary arm or body reflex, like a sudden jerk, but before this happens, during dreaming, there will be a time sequence of events like going in a car for a while and the car hits something or I'll be walking for a bit and then trip over suddenly.
But I'm fairly sure the movement is quite involuntary and unpredictable so how are the dream time sequences happening before the jerk? It's almost as if the dreaming knows the jerk will happen in the future and "backwards reconstructs" an appropriate dream scenario to fit it. I always wake up after the movement BTW.

I'm not sure if this came across clearly, but in my dream, the man was clearly positioned OUTSIDE the helicopter, suspended below the main part of the craft. That's part of what makes the dream and the event so unusual. When I saw the news report, I was quite surprised to find out that anyone would fly like this routinely, not to mention that they would be involved with power lines in some way.

Lawrence Richard Wiseman misses another point about dreaming.

The other night I had one of my regular magnum opus ones which seem to last for decades and cover aeons of time but this one was so full of remarkable detail it was all I could do not to run downstairs and tell me brother the whole thing but I was dying for a leak and by the time I'd finished I'd relived such huge portions of it I knew there was no way I wasn't go'n'o remember it in the morning.

Meanwhile as I started lying down though I heard me brother on the landing and I rushed out to regale him with all the dramatic details only to find by the time I'd got the door open not a bit of the dream was left.

In your hypothetical Peter O'Toole dream what'd make it harder to forget was precisely the anomalous if not downright absurd visual detail Peter O'Toole'd been on a ladder outside your window but also the associated concept the reason he'd been on the ladder was because he'd been acting as your windowcleaner.

To Wiseman those details'd be irrelevent because they seem to bear no relation to your hypothetical subsequent encountering of O'Toole yet it would've been precisely that irrelevence which would've enabled your mind to remember you'd dreamt of him in the first place.

It was the systematic ignoring of such irrelevent unscientific details which meant science had to wait more than two thousand years to realise Aesop's tale of crows using stones to raise the level of water wasn't merely a parable about HUMAN ingenuity.

"It's almost as if the dreaming knows the jerk will happen in the future and "backwards reconstructs" an appropriate dream scenario to fit it."

I've had many similar experiences, and have heard about others. So if you're ready for a little philosophizing, here's what I think about that.

If precognition is real--as we all agree it seems to be--then linear time is not a fundamental pillar of reality, and everything actually happens simultaneously. (As absurd as that seems to us body-dwellers.) This is precisely what NDErs keep reporting.

Maybe in the dream state we come closer to that timeless place, as evidenced by our frequent precognitions, and by the fact that it's often hard to understand or reconstruct the timeline of our dreams. Time certainly feels different or odd to ME when I'm dreaming.

So that sequence of events you're describing is not really a sequence at all. Because, in truth, there ARE no sequences of events. (Again, a ridiculous sounding statement on the surface.) And the events leading up to that jerk you describe, are actually happening "at the same time" as the jerk itself.

The point is, it's the dream state itself that makes this sort of event possible, because in sleep, we are temporarily in the timeless state (or close to it), and then we quickly emerge from it.

In that respect, sleep is like death--both are radically different forms of consciousness at the margins of our normal experience, and for that reason, are fertile grounds for time anomalies and psi.

What do you think? Have I gone off the deep end? :o)

It amazes me that Robert Wiseman actually takes his explanations seriously! But skeptics are stubborn if anything. haha.

I had a dream that was more vivid than being awake. I immediately wrote my dream down when I had it at 2:30 a.m. I even wrote that I thought the dream was going to come true! Why? Because it was more real than being awake!!

So the dream was my Earth First! activist friends standing on the roof of a house, holding a banner, standing with Native American activists, all protesting to protect a forest.

That's a pretty specific dream. O.K. Wiseman - let's play your odds on that one.

Three years later I've long forgotten about my dream that I wrote down but then I am sitting staring at a photocopy of a photo from a newspaper. It's of a very important event locally -- the Minnehaha Free State -- a demonstration I was part of. The photo was of -- exactly the same thing I had the dream of. Only my dream was in 1995 and the photo was from 1998.

I got this eerie sensation as I began to remember the dream. I drove to my parents where I had left my old journal and I began paging through the journal. Whammo - I found the dream entry and it was exactly the same as the photo in the newspaper. The event had been covered on the front page of the Earth First! Journal also and in 1995 I had been the "local contact" in the Earth First! Journal.

O.K. so that's pretty freaky right? three years later? What does that say about the present. There's a great book that even goes beyond lucid dreaming or OBEs - it's called "Transcendent Dreaming." By Donnell - a psychiatrist who also does meditation and martial arts and dream healing, traveling, etc.

Anyway so years later I was listening to Coasttocoastam and someone called it to say they had a dream that came true three years later -- again in great detail. So I felt corroborated at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsyBgF3EjNU

This OBEer Robert Peterson is very articulate! He starts at 1 hr 16 mns about in the above link - from the Coasttocoastam radio show this month.

So his book is online http://www.robertpeterson.org/chap18.html He mentions precognitive experiences also but a lot of other stuff as well.

Bruce
You are of course right on time perception being awry in dreams and I also agree about something extra getting facilitated in this state, looking at people's powerful precognition experiences. But even in ordinary daily states time flow itself is illusion see here:
https://sbs.arizona.edu/project/consciousness/report_poster_detail.php?abs=1202

so proof of different felt time "rates"? Still, though, a sense of moving forward in time.
But here is a case, p. 78, of a patient with a damaged brain seeing poured coffee being "frozen" in time and other effects.
http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/00/25/02/84/PDF/3196.pdf

So the brain creates time? Time seems like a necessary imposition so we can just get on in the world.
You said about "timeless state" so I can't really disagree if what's really "out there" doesn't have time, by itself, at all. So when we see birth-life-death (people, trees...) in time (even with increasing entropy - setting a time arrow) these processes could be reformulated without time at all. It's just that we can't normally think this way! - hence confusion.
There are also some ideas in physics where a backward-in-time effect from the far future of the universe can effect initial conditions, Paul Davies has spoke of this and there is a necessary dependence.

Maybe the way the mind can, I suppose instantly, access correct information (precognition etc.) gives a real clue as to the nature of reality in the sense that reality has to be kind of mind-like in some sense so that "our" minds can garner this info. Some ideas, slight off topic.

@Robert Mcluhan.. You say you've never had a psi dream. Some of the other accounts on here of special vividness or a sense of knowing this dream was important probably confirm that impression for you. But I think you're very likely wrong. The point of my post is to suggest that elements of the future appear routinely in "ordinary" dreams all the time. The difficulty - apart from remembering - is just noticing.

Something happened yesterday involving a friend who is every bit as certain as you that he doesn't dream the future. It's worth reporting here as it illustrates the point.

Mark appeared briefly in my dream on Friday night so I decided to tell him about it yesterday morning.

MY DREAM: "you, being pushed in a wheelchair behind me in the crowd...
The wheelchair was a seeming affectation to show how poorly you are as the actual injury, sustained earlier but somehow I've no recollection of, is that your arm is in a sling.. You then get up and go over to someone you know, standing in front of me.. it's Simon Cowell! "

Mark laughs at this image of himself, reflects on the high improbability of him actually breaking or spraining his arm in future, and for conversation sake tells me his own dream from that night in return.

MARK's DREAM: "David Cameron and his deputy , who rather than being Nick Clegg was actually Paul Abel from The Sky At Night.
(..)the country had somehow gone rather 1984.
Members of the government were living in peoples' houses to keep them in check, and my dad and I had the misfortune to have the PM and Abel.
It was quite an unnerving dream, with a sort of undercurrent of fear through it but I was absolutely furious about the liberties they were taking and was openly contemptuous to Paul Abel who knew that what they were doing was really wrong but wouldn't do anything about it."

You'll see the dreams clearly have nothing in common, nor were they expected to. His, moreover, is pointedly NOT expected to foresee anything.

Shortly after Mark updates his Facebook status thus:
"Oh ffs. Woke up, there's an envelope from Atos on the doormat. Here we go again. I wish they'd just leave me alone."

Why am I telling you this? There's no element to it that matches either dream...he certainly made no connection and nor did I. Not till several hours later when it hit me like a brick.

Here's the information you need to know: Mark is not disabled or physically unfit. He's perfectly capable. But he's permanently signed off from work and on disability related welfare for sound medical reasons. Aptly he has a rare sleep disorder which means his sleep cycle is shot to hell and his waking/sleeping hours are different from day to day. He may be awake from teh middle of the day today but from the middle of the night tomorrow. He is therefore an able bodied man who's genuinely unemployable.
ATOS - whose dreaded letter he received - is a controversial private company contracted by the government to get people off disability benefits by the notoriously kafka-esque method of requiring them to personally attend an assessment by an often barely qualified judge (you can make you own Simon Cowell joke at thi point). Should they turn up for the assessment they're clearly able bodied and fit for work. Should they not turn up, on the other hand they are deemed to have forfeited their entitlement to welfare. It's an insane bureaucracy which terrifies many ill people.

Now you have this information read MY DREAM again. Does it not seem to be more than a little prescient?

Here's the good bit, with the same information in mind read MARK's DREAM again. Do his dreams appear as non-psychic as he believed them to be? What does that suggest about yours, Robert?

I'm wary of going down the road of relying on word play but you might even seen significance in the name of the TV presenter his dream cast in the role of the unfeeling bureaucrat.....


"She had difficulty, for example, in pouring tea or coffee into a cup because the fluid appeared to be frozen, like a glacier."

Alan, this is from the article you linked to. And it brings to mind what used to happen when I smoked hashish back in the 70's.

I would be listening to a recording, and it would sound exactly as though someone were grabbing the turntable (of my record player, not CD player) to keep it from spinning at its normal rate. The music would become radically distorted, slowing down to the point where it nearly stopped altogether.

This was shocking to me because I was awake, of course, and perfectly capable of talking, walking, writing, whatever. But I simply could not hear the music as I normally did.

"So the brain creates time? Time seems like a necessary imposition so we can just get on in the world."

I would say that a little differently: the brain creates time so that we can have a certain sort of experience. Here on the Earth plane we've chosen to organize our lives according to chronological sequence, whereas in other realms of existence, reality is structured according to other priorities or qualities.

"@Robert Mcluhan.. You say you've never had a psi dream. . . . But I think you're very likely wrong. "

Robert, Lawrence may be on to something. I'd love to see you read J.W. Dunne's Experiment in Time, and try it for yourself. Dunne gives great instructions, and the experience can be quite an exciting adventure.

I myself tried the experiment and was stunned by the results. It does take some effort and commitment, but for me, the results played a crucial role in changing my worldview. (I had been a militant atheist just a year or two before.)

Dunne also explains why it is so easy to miss these dreams, and understanding that is a big piece of the puzzle.

Oh I'm quite prepared to believe that I have psi dreams, and that perhaps everyone does - I just meant that like most people I'm not aware of it.

I did read Dunne's book some time ago, and I even tried out the method. But I have issues with sleeping; the business of waking up in the middle of the night to jot down dreams often left me feeling tired the next day.

Come to think of it, I have never felt any strong impulse to experiment for myself on psi subjects, I suppose because I'm persuaded by other people's experiences and experiments. It seems more interesting and useful - at least as far as I'm concerned - to try to bring them to other people's attention.

Waking up in the middle of the night is a pain. And its probably not necessary. Some of the mor striking and literal examples I've given have been from the first, and shortest dreams, but the longest and most memorable are those just before you wake in the morning.

A recorder by th bed enables you to summarise what ever you do rememvber in those lazy first 5 or 10 minutes between waking and shifting yourself, just before the details vanish....and as you're about to get up anyway shouldn't disturb your wife!

@Bruce.. I've not read Dunne but am very aware of him. I'd reccommend you buy Dreamer by Andrew Paquette.. I know of if from a brief review on here by Robert 2 years ago and only sent off for it last week. He's a painter with a strong visual memory and has kept precise and detailed notes and cross references on his dreams for 20 years. His experiences far exceed mine...the stuff we report he counts in his ordinary dreams category, but has gone way beyond those to the point of seeing intelligent communication and purpose behind it. Something I don't recognise from my limited perspective but from his remarkable experiences it hard to argue with him.

But anyway the point is he's such a detailed dream journalist/analyst that's gone some way to learn the rules of understanding when a dream is a PD, how to identify and overcome confusions in meaning and imagery and so on. It's not an instruction manual, but it does suggest its possible to "master" understanding this with enough effort.


Bruce, Your experience does reinforce the illusion of subjective time. Not tried myself! I like your comment "the brain creates time so that we can have a certain sort of experience".

"But I have issues with sleeping; the business of waking up in the middle of the night to jot down dreams often left me feeling tired the next day."

I know what you mean! After a couple of weeks of falling asleep during the music lessons I teach, I had to say that enough was enough.

"I suppose because I'm persuaded by other people's experiences and experiments"

I too find other people's experiences compelling. But you have to remember, I had been such a cocksure materialist prior to this time, that I needed to know, without a doubt, that I wasn't simply falling into the trap of misguided certainty once again.

"I'd recommend you buy Dreamer by Andrew Paquette"

Great book, Lawrence. I know Andy from Skeptiko, and I agree that his is one of the very best books about PD's. The first book I read on the subject, and probably still my favorite, is Dreams That Come True. Andy became friends with its author, David Ryback.

But you probably know all this. :o)

I don't want to keep posting and turn this comment section into my personal dream diary but something extraordinary and different happened this morning which demands an audience while I'm still in that fading "amazed" stage....

Went through the night with the usual routine of recording what I recalled each time I drifted out of a dream. Got to what turned out to be the last dream of the night, quite long and detailed, stirred and as usual, picked up the recorder, pressed the top button twice, saw teh red light go on and lay there in bed, eyes closed trying to recall and report out loud all the details I could remember of the dream I'd just had...with all the usual little gaps and uncertainties in the tale. Nothing unusual in any way. Except this.....

I then woke up.

No recorder in my hand. And the startled realisation that the last several minutes of recording my previous dream was ITSELF a dream. Indistinguishable from reality in every way. This has only happened once before to my recollection but only involved checking the time on the clock...this time was several minutes of laying there, exercising my memory and speaking into a recording device.

Still startled but thinking the dream might be important so I'd better go through it all again and record for real before it fades I picked up the dictaphone. Try as I might it would not go on.

It took me several more minutes to realise it must be full...I've not deleted anything, just keep recording, with no idea when it would reach full capacity, and there's no visible display at night btw.

In short... my dream self somehow knew my waking self would be unable to record the dream, so did the job instead!!!!!!

Paranormalia: Some Precognitive Dreams 群发 http://www.jitesi.com/gscraper/explain/

I had a startling semi-precognitive dream a few months ago, it must have been about the beginning of the year. In fact it's easy to figure out the exact date if anybody can be bothered, and here is why...

I had dreamed about Prince Harry and his being killed by the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the dream was vividly real, that I was convinced that Harry really had been killed and that everybody was talking about it. It took me a while after waking up to realize that it wasn't true, so real was the dream. The thing is this dream I had was the night before the news came out that Harry had done another tour of Afghanistan as a chopper pilot, there was a story on it at yahoo news, that's where I read about it the very next day, the day after my dream.

The weird thing is that it wasn't common knowledge that Harry had done another tour in Afghanistan, I certainly didn't know about it. In fact it was only revealed to the media/general public after he got back to the UK, before that such news was censored and kept in-house so to speak. I had known he had done a tour years ago but assumed, like most everybody else, that that was that. So when I woke up after the dream, I thought well of course Harry hasn't been in Afghanistan for years!

What's interesting about the dream, is even though precognitive in a sense (it's too much of a coincidence not to be), Harry had not been killed thank God. It's like my dream was some kind of inversion of the facts re Harry, he had been involved in operations in which Taliban were killed. Why the inversion? Is it that Harry being killed in my dream would make more of an impression on my mind than if the dream had been accurate about just who had been killed? Well it certainly worked, that way I did remember it and I don't usually remember my dreams. Or is it that dreams being the mirror of our conscious, kind of get things back to front? Or was it a combination of the two?

Anyway thought it worth relating here.

PS I am a different Lawrence to Lawrence B.

Worth adding the synchronicity of the mention of the dream relating to the Queen, where in the main posting you write:

"Last Monday night, 6 May: I dreamt of the Queen at a Commonwealth gathering and the (genuine) plot of a movie in which a missing girl had been abducted and kept alive below ground."

Harry is of course the Queen's grandson, that's what I mean by the synchronicity. May 6th is also my birthday.

Further down the in the main blog posting, there is the mention of T E Lawrence aka Lawrence of Arabia. Well that's three of us then, three Lawrences. In this blog entry I mean.

You can really go down the rabbit hole with this stuff, as Robert Anton Wilson observed. And if you ever come out again, well...

(Other) Lawrence: I think your prince harry/afghanistan dream comes under the same observation/rule I pointed out in my original post but which I myself keep forgetting in my endlessly failed attempts to use the dreams as predictions. That is it is hte images not the plot that counts.

The images, or more precisely "things" which have gone in to the mix are Harry himself and hte location of Afghanistan. The idea of him being killed is a the plot, no more than a reasonable story your mind or brain has produced using thos key images. Sometimes the story may closely resemble real events, but usually it will be different or diverge in its outcome.

Thsi answers the seeming paradox of those instances where someone dreams of a disaster, it appears to manifest in real life but thanks to the dream the individual alters the course f events and averts the disaster. People spend a long time wondering does this mean they never saw the future? Does it mean the future is just one of a series of possibilities rather than fixed? Or does it involve parallel worlds? What I'm suggesting is that none of these need be considered at all. The outcome in the dream was just where the plot f dream randomly took it, and not an accurate premonition in its own right. It may by chance have played out exactly as dreamt, but is generally not likely to.

I forgot this myself the night before last when I was convinced I'd had a vision of apocalyptic disaster, a world of floods and dark sooty cities. It actually scared me....till I watched Les Miserables on DVD yesterday and realised the imagery had come from this film, but the "end of world" theme was just the story my brain had made of the material.

Lawrence B, yes I see what you are getting at. Very good point and it makes a lot of sense.

It's just that I am so used to interpreting or trying to 'make sense' of precognitive dreams in the more 'conventional' or traditional sense. It takes a while to appreciate what you are getting at, because we are so conditioned or rather used to a set default thinking on this admittedly baffling topic. Much food for thought.

It should be said I say these things confidently as if they're universally true, but can only really speak for my own experiences. Andrew Paquette in his book seems to break every "rule" I've claimed to exist in that his dreams appear to be purposeful, guided, structured and accurate.....he incorporates everything from past life memories, astral projection, visitations from ghosts, visits to the afterlife etc etc into his dream accounts. Effectively dreaming, in his experience, is the consciousness entering what we might call the spirit world. And it's a head scratcher for me because I believe him yet its so alien to me. I can only presume he is the psychic I deny being and things are different for the likes of him.

On your other point about 3 lawrences and connection between harry and the queen etc..that's an area I didn't explore in my original post for lack of space. The temptation...and, for me, need to resist that temptation....to point out every correlation, connection and coincidence, or indulge in wordplay. Because it may be true that there's something to it, and may be convincing to the person who's experienced the dream, but to someone else who you may be trying to convince it sounds weak, far fetched and undermines the more impressive details by suggesting you/I are an obsessed nut seeing patterns where none exist.

Prime example from my original post. The dream recollection of a movie plot which I connected to the Amanda Berry abduction/escape in Ohio: Here's teh actual movie plot. It was a Dutch film. A man's girlfriend is abducted and never found. He relentlessly tracks down her abductor and in his grief and desperation agrees to the let the kidnapper do to him what he did to the girl..on the promise he didn't kill her...he's to take a sleeping draft, and when he wakes up he'll be where the girl woke up. He does this and wakes up buried alive in a coffin.

Now you've no idea how much I longed to point out the connection between these more precise details and the name of the kidnapped girl in Ohio. Amanda Berry. A man to bury!

It's so tantalising, personally convincing and to me reasonable to imagine the unconscious mind would jumble up an unfamiliar sounding name into something more familiar that sounds like it. But I know if I was listening to someone else telling the tale when they got to that bit I'd roll my eyes, think they're desperately reaching, and so have less faith in the value of the main part of the story! So I try not to point out such trivial connections out loud!

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